Katharevousa:The loss of our True language

[Aristotelian]

Many of you probably think that theres no differebce in the ancient and modern Greek language, well id like to see you and Plato have a conversation. Read the following sources and see why a silly little Greek decided to change the Hellenic language to better Greece? Or purify us all?lol The decisions that change our future eh?


Katharevousa (Greek Καθαρεύουσα, IPA: [kaθaˈre̞vuˌsa]) is a form of the Greek language, created during the early 19th century by Adamantios Korais (1748-1833). A graduate of the university of Montpellier in 1788, Korais spent most of his life as an expatriate in Paris. Being a classical scholar, he was repelled by the Byzantine influence in Greek society and was a fierce critic of the ignorance of the clergy and their subservience to the Ottoman Empire. He realized that education was a precursor to Greek liberation.



The purpose of its creation was to mediate the struggle between the "archaists" and the "modernists". One reason the Archaists preferred Ancient Greek was that Modern Greek includes many Latin, Italian and Turkish loan words; and Greece then was a part of the Ottoman Empire. The name Katharevousa means more or less "clean one", implying that it is a clean form of Greek, without foreign influences, maybe as it would hypothetically have evolved from Ancient Greek had there been no foreign influence.




The Development of Modern Greek
It was not until the uprising against the Turks in 1821 that the modern Greek state was born. However this did not stop Greek intellectuals of the eighteenth century dreaming about the institutions of an independent Greece, in particular the language that was, together with Orthodox Christianity, to be one of the unifying factors of the new nation. One of the most influential of these was Paris-based Adamandios Korais (1748 - 1833) who was, unwittingly, to fire one of the most bitter debates of modern Greece.

Reinventing a language may, today, seem a rather pointless occupation but to the Greeks of the late 18th century plotting revolution against the Ottoman Turks, there were important practical questions to be resolved. Although a tradition of Greek literature had been maintained through the years of occupation by Frank, Venetian and Turk, this had been achieved mainly through the flowering of isolated centres of culture over relatively brief periods (e.g. Crete during the 16th & early 17th centuries and later in the Ionian islands after the fall of Crete in 1669). However in the main Greek had become a largely oral culture and the problem perceived by the founders of the Greek state was in what language should the constitution and laws of Modern Greece be drafted and what should be the language used in education and administration? Historically the answer would have been to revert to the Attic Greek of classical Athens, the language in which Plato had written over two thousand years earlier

[Otto]

Historically the answer would have been to revert to the Attic Greek of classical Athens, the language in which Plato had written over two thousand years earlier

What do you think about this?

although our Greek is very similar to the ancient Greek of those times, it also is different yet also simpler.

I like the Greek language we have now. Do you think we should change it?

[Aristotelian]

Originally Posted by Otto

Historically the answer would have been to revert to the Attic Greek of classical Athens, the language in which Plato had written over two thousand years earlier

What do you think about this?

although our Greek is very similar to the ancient Greek of those times, it also is different yet also simpler.

I like the Greek language we have now. Do you think we should change it?

Like i said, id like to see a modern Greek have a spophisticated convo with Plato, Socrates whoever...a citizen of Athens even.

Let me put it to you his way, pick up a book with ancient greek on the left side and modern on the right.Letters will be the same but when you start to read it you will be quite suprised.

How i think of this change of language is actualy Platos allegory of the cave (aka the matrix for you confused people). Only from going to the light, we have taken a step back into darkness(from a Greek literal point of view).

Anyways to answer your question it would be phenomenal to see us Greeks return to the Hellenic language, would take time, but what i would realy like to see is ancient Greek language being taught in all the Greek schools from kindi to Uni and being made mandatory for students to pass.

I know a few words and sentences in ancient Greek and when i speak to my friends in ancient Greek they find it sounds almost poetic.
Its a godly language my brother.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by Aristotelian

Like i said, id like to see a modern Greek have a spophisticated convo with Plato, Socrates whoever...a citizen of Athens even.

Let me put it to you his way, pick up a book with ancient greek on the left side and modern on the right.Letters will be the same but when you start to read it you will be quite suprised.

How i think of this change of language is actualy Platos allegory of the cave (aka the matrix for you confused people). Only from going to the light, we have taken a step back into darkness(from a Greek literal point of view).

Anyways to answer your question it would be phenomenal to see us Greeks return to the Hellenic language, would take time, but what i would realy like to see is ancient Greek language being taught in all the Greek schools from kindi to Uni and being made mandatory for students to pass.

I know a few words and sentences in ancient Greek and when i speak to my friends in ancient Greek they find it sounds almost poetic.
Its a godly language my brother.

I agree!
How easy is it to learn Ancient Greek when you know the Modern form?

[Macedonian]

That is some real interesting stuff. I have a bit about this stuff before. I hope to understand it better in the future.

I also would like to learn a lot more about all our old dialects. How many actully still survive, that would be interesting to knpw.

[pankration]

As a diaspora Greek, my command of the language is less than sufficient. This summer in Greece, I spoke more Greek in two weeks than I have in 20 years. And guess what, it's a beautiful language with many words that have multiple meanings yet seem to come forth so effortlessly. When spoken properly it's as rhythmic as any of the romance languages so I don't care who's right in this debate. Just to hear it is enough.

[heerceMeece]

Hello
I've just registered at the forum. This is my first message.
Please don't become angry about me.
Thank you.

[Macedonian]

One thing I can say, our language in its present form is still a very sophisticated language.

[careybagsbon]

Greetings to all.

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[akritas]

Guys as native Greek , nearly 40 , I have studied both languages. The great Greek philosopher Evagellos Papanoutsos put in 70s some questions regarding this dispute.

Which form of the Greek language should the youths be taught in the schools?

Should it be katharevousa, the language constructed by some tradition-bound scholars and the church and based on a pseudo Attic dialect?

Or should it be the demotike, the language that lives today in the mouths and hearts of the Greek people, that constitutes a historical continuity of ancient and medieval Greek, that predominates in literature and, to a degree, more or less in science and the press?

My answer is Demotike. In spite of common characteristics, katharevousa and demotike have great differences in their form and syntax that is, in word structure. Katharevousa has been constructed by scholars and is based on a bookish tradition. Demotike is alive in the mouths of the people,it echoes the people natural linguistic sentiment and it speaks directly to their souls. Therefore, the two cannot coexist in school life and practice without the creation in the students of intellectual anarchy and confusion in expression.